In our first podcast of 2014, Naturejobs speaks to Nessa Carey, senior director at Pfizer about her journey from academia to industry. We find out what drove her to make the leap, how she made the decision, and what she has learned by looking back.
You can now subscribe to the RSS feed or to our iTunes channel
Nessa Carey started out as an academic at Imperial College, working in a research area where she was quite successful. She moved up the career ladder quickly towards senior lecturer, and was publishing papers, supervising students and bringing in plenty of grant income for future research projects.
Yet even though she was doing so well, academia wasn’t for her. Although she was, “in academic nerd terms, “living the dream,”” she was becoming increasingly frustrated, for two particular reasons. Firstly, she couldn’t see how her work was directly affecting patient health, which was what was driving her in the first place. The second reason what that she could feel that she wasn’t a great scientist. She was good, no doubt about it, but she wasn’t great. And why would she want to continue in a field where she wasn’t using all of her strengths, and was only ok at? Why not go somewhere where she could make more of an impact?
Making the leap was an emotionally difficult decision to make. “I was worried that people would feel I had given up.” She had everything she was supposed to have wanted, and so what if people might think she had failed by making the change? Making sure that she wasn’t affected by this, she had to make an emotional adjustment: she had to believe that she had not failed at all, “it was doing something else with the rest of my career.”
In hindsight, she thinks that there was a lot of feeling that she shouldn’t be doing this, and she could only find one colleague in which to confide. “It’s almost like you’re letting the side down.”
After plucking up the courage and having made the leap 12 years ago, she has moved around in 4 different jobs, finally ending up at Pfizer, where she is now the senior director. Industry suits her better because of the culture, “there’s a real sense of shared purpose,” everyone is working together towards a common goal. The variation in her role is also what she loves. By having worked in biotech and pharma, she can still keep her fingers in the science pie. “It really does feel like I have the best of both possible worlds.”
To prepare for making this leap, Nessa had to take a much more objective look at what skills she had. “We’re not trained to step back and think “What is it I’m good at?”” Nessa believes we all have skills we don’t recognise, we just get on with it and don’t think about them. Taking the time to look at her skills and assess what you excel in is what made her leap much smoother.
And for Nessa, it wasn’t difficult to do. As an academic, there were a lot of demands on her (and any other academic too): juggling time, managing people, communicating, leading teams, persuading people. These are all highly valued skills in industry. So if you’ve been an enthusiastic, hard working person, you probably already have these skills. You just need to find time to recognise them.
The employers are looking for exactly these skills, so they are easily transferrable. Nessa does stress that you do need a good science base, but it isn’t the be-all-and-end-all, “you have to bear in mind that there are an awful lot of people who can understand and are good at science, and who can run things technically.” Being able to work with others and communicate, using those “soft skills”, is vital.
Nessa stresses is that when you are hired by industry, the industry is investing in you. And businesses, large or small, are aware on the fact that they are investing in you. One false investment could cost them.
Finding the time to develop these skills isn’t as hard as it seems and is definitely worth your time. Are you running a society? Are you supervising a student? Do you do any teaching? These are the opportunities at an academic institution where you can develop an awful lot of skills. “Any time you say yes to something, you are noticed, and you are developing.”
Nessa’s tips for those sitting on the fence: always talk to other people in both industries. Find out about their experiences, what they enjoy, what they don’t. “Just learn to be slightly more confident…and asking for advice. Because if the only advice you ask for is from academia, it will only be relevant to academia.” Get the spread of opinion. People are always willing to help, “Pretty much everybody working in industry will always agree to meet younger scientists, mainly because like everybody else we just like talking about ourselves!”
Do you have any questions for Nessa? You can ask on Twitter at @naturejobs using #AcademiatoIndustry, Facebook, or leave a comment below.
Report this comment
This is a really postitive blog, I’m currently looking to move from academia to industry and it’s true, there are a lot of people who see it as giving up, personally I feel more like it’s moving on! I also completely agree with having to say yes to opportunities, such as running meetings and teaching, it really helps you develop and although it isn’t directly helping your lab work progress it is most definitely helping your career, so it’s important to make time for it.
Report this comment
Right there with you! The barriers between the sectors are slowly coming down, at least in the UK, and I think that’s a really good thing. It will create an atmosphere of greater mutual respect and collaboration. Good luck with your career change.
Report this comment
I’ve really enjoyed the informations and the experiences shared by Dr. Nessa Carey in this post.
My favorite part was her advice to recognize our abilities: “What is it I’m good at?”. It is not limited just to “techniques and skills”. Rhazes (865–925) says: If all people were able to put their talents into right use, then this world would turn into the paradise that everyone is after. Academia is more attractive for people who want to be seen more, interact with students, teaching jobs etc. If somebody wants to make patent and materials to affect people life faster, it would be the best to join industry.
In Japan, where I am working now, there are almost 16000 post-doc fellows in various fields, but the academic positions are very limited. So, absolute majority of these guys should think seriously to be an industry man/ woman!
Report this comment
Hi Mohammed, thanks for posting. In the UK the data from the Royal Society show that only 1 out of 200 people who start a PhD will become a Professor. The attrition and loss rates are really high throughout the academic pipeline. So I completely agree that everyone needs to think broadly, not least because it’s possible to do science in industry that is different but just as interesting and creative as science in academia, it’s just focussed on different questions.
Report this comment
Dear Dr. Carey,
Thanks for the reply and the information. I personally love both sides and have enough reasons for each. The most important thing to me is to be productive.
Best wishes from Japan
Dadashipour
Report this comment
Hi! Please provide contact details of Ms Nessa Carey.
Thanks
Tashfeen, Asst. Prof., School of Biotech., GBU, India
Report this comment
Dear Tashfeen,
I’m afraid I cannot provide the contact details for Dr Nessa Carey. If you have a question for her, please do ask here in the comments.
Thanks,
Julie
Report this comment
Hi! I’m so glad I found your post. I am 25 years old and I am just finishing my master’s degree. I can completely relate to what you’re saying. I am a good student but I feel constantly frustrated because I don’t feel my work has the impact I wish it had although I love science . Honestly I don’t know what to do from here, I’m not sure if I want to invest 4-5 years completing a PhD but I maybe my science base isn’t quite strong yet. Or maybe the best thing would be start working in the industry and start building a business experience. I’d really appreciate your thoughts. Thank you for your time. Fer
Report this comment
Hi Fernanda. I am a big believer in doing what really enthuses you. If you love the idea of a PhD then that is the right step for you. But if it makes your heart sink, that’s a terrible way to spend a few years of your life. Only you can decide that. The most important thing is to make decisions actively, rather than wait for something to happen and it sounds like you are indeed thinking actively about your steps. I can’t tell you what is the right career path for you, but I have this theory that success comes from doing something that makes you happy, rather than happiness coming from being successful.
Report this comment
Hi Nessa. I am a PhD student and I have approximately 9-12 months until graduation. I am interested in pursuing a career in industry, but I am not sure where to begin. My advisor only has experience in finding his graduates postdoc positions, and I am not interested in getting stuck in academia for 2-3 years when I really want to get my career started in industry. What type of opportunities are out there for PhDs with no postdoc experience? Or do you think it would be wise to do a postdoc first? I would appreciate your thoughts. It’s difficult to get a perspective on this topic when the entirety of my training has been done in an academic environment with those who have always worked in academia. Thank you!
Report this comment
Hi Laura. I am a big believer in doing what I feel most positive about at the time. Although that is probably just a reflection on my character more than anything else. A post-doc is really demanding so you need to feel very committed about it. There are jobs in industry for new PhDs although obviously it’s very competitive. The big companies all advertise on these website. Smaller companies are worth approaching directly. Check out science parks, see if there are start-ups looking for people and net work like crazy, so that you get a feel for the cultures in different organisations and sectors. Good luck and keep at it, persistence generally pays off.
Report this comment
Hi Nessa, It is very inspiring article. I really would like to switch my career from academia to industry. I love research but academia system (e.g funding, nonpermanent job contract) is really frustrating. So what was your first position after leaving academia?
Many said that companies tend not to hire person who pursue long academia career track such as postdoc. Is this true?
Thank you so much.
Report this comment
Hi Ina. My first job in industry was as head of a department. This was 9 years after obtaining my PhD. You can move into industry at any time from academia, but it depends what you have been doing. By this I mean that if you have perhaps had 4 post-doctoral positions, all in the same lab and working on the same topic, this may be a disadvantage unless you have skills which are extremely high-end and specialist. My attitude is always to think about how I will be different after any position that I accept. If you can’t really think how a position will give you something new to add to your CV, it may be time to be thinking about moving on.
Report this comment
Dear Dr.Carey,
I think that your interview was extremely insightful and it underscores the importance of holistic development in every step of one’s career path.
Thank you so much for this well articulated piece.
Regards
Varshika K
Report this comment
Thanks Varshika, I am very glad you found this useful.
Report this comment
Dear Dr. Carey,
Thanks for a really insightful interview!
I also wish to make the transition from academia to industry. However, since my research background is molecular evolution and developmental biology I decided to do some work placements in various biomedical labs to gain experience with that kind of research. Do you need to have been doing biomed/biotech research since your Masters degree to have any chance of being a researcher in industry?
Do you think it would be worth me doing a postdoc first to increase my competence in the field?
I have tried looking for entry level jobs in industry, but in my experience having a PhD is a hindrance for such jobs. Also, the number of job titles has made searching for a suitable job mind-boggling. What was your strategy when looking for your first job in industry?
Regards,
Desirée D
Report this comment
Hi Desiree. I know it can seem overwhelming trying to get that break into something new, but it is worth the persistence. I made my first jump when I was already pretty experienced. I had worked out what kind of role I wanted and then searched for jobs that seemed appropriate. But even then, what got me the job wasn’t really the science. There were lots of other scientists as good as me. It was the other stuff- being able to show I could work with a range of people, had various non-lab skills etc. The trick is to look at what you are expert in, and then demonstrate that the skills can be applied to other areas. Your expertise in molecular genetics and developmental biology must mean that you are expert in a number of techniques and also in good experimental design. These are important attributes, so think of how you sell yourself to potential employers. But never forget that if faced with two candidates with the same scientific expertise, an employer will almost always hire the one who has shown the greatest interest in wider skills as well. Network like crazy – talk to people at conferences, contact bosses of small and start-up companies asking if you can come and visit to learn more about their company, all that kind of thing. It may feel like you are being pushy but it’s all about getting to know people.