How is it that "scientists" who are consistently declaring themselves to be convinced by evidence so consistently ignoring the very thing they purport to rely on? You have implied that there are no contradictory studies but that is a lie. You say you trust "science" but that too is anything BUT true. Science, and I say that term with much disdain for the current presentation of what passes for science, takes facts in evidence and evaluates them rigidly for potential causes and exhaustively investigates the causes to make a legitimate hypothesis and studies that hypothesis for validation or nullification - but that is not what passes as "science" in medicine today. Quite an opposite paradigm is in existence which leads to the death and destructive influence on the health of millions who have blindly put their trust in modern medicine which is little more than a broad reaching science experiment forced upon the lives of the unsuspecting.

How could a doctor, expecting to maintain any sense of self-respect, tell the mother and father of a once healthy child after said child goes "dark" shortly after being immunized with thimerosal (mercury-based) laced shots that it had nothing to do with the shots? And that is the premise you are asking people to believe despite the repetitive occurrences throughout our country.

I read that you like getting lost in unfamiliar places - it appears this topic is one of those unfamiliar places where logic and reason are suspended at the door and one must enter with their mind disengaged.

How many children must be damaged before you stop parroting the drug-company mantra that mercury in the form of thimerosal is insignificant and non-detrimental to an infants health?

I don't expect this to be posted but must in good conscience submit it as a wake-up call to an obviously tired journalist.

In Health,
Bill

I'm not quite sure why Ms Jones would be "afraid" of the decision not being based on science. The parents have experts testifying to science that vaccine mnufactureres ignore. That doesn't mean it isn't science.

[Editor's note: pls note that this column is by Apoorva Mandavilli - Nicola Jones is just the moderator of this blog.]

But a few notations should be made here...is it "scientific" when a pediatrician tells a parent the chronic diarrhea is "autistic diarrhea" and there is nothing that can be done?

Is it "scientific" when an "autism treatment facility" uses electric shocks on a non-verbal child in pain?

Is it "scientific" when children with autoimmune family histories are not informed the vaccines are known to do harm when the possibility of autoimmune conditions exist?

Is it "scientific" when pediatricians don't keep good records and double-vaccinate children?

Is it "scientific" when pediatricians don't report vaccine reactions to the only database that tracks them?

Is it "scientific" when pediatricians tell a parent that a child, screaming for hours and hours after a vaccine this is "normal"?

Is it "scientific" when the parents are told to medicate children for allergies without finding out what child is sensitive to?

Is it "scientific" to prescribe off-label use of adult psychotropics, often multiple prescriptions, without doing any testing on the child for allergies, immune, endocrine or gastric symptoms?...without ever giving a child a full medical exam or taking a full history?

Is it "scientific" when "physicians" that fall in the above categories get paid to write articles that advance the idea that half a million children are worth less than the dollars that are earned in the vaccine program?

Is it "scientific" that the premises put for by Hippocrates, in Modern versions of the Oath, are abandoned in favor of paid endorsements while accpeting payment for services from patients for treatment, even when those are in conflict?

No...it is not the presentation of science that is being ignored that "scares" Ms Jones and so many others...it isn't even that the parents have an emotional response to bearing the financial burden and the social isolation and this kind of ridicule on behalf of these children.

What is repeatedly stated in this and other articles like this is that the fear is for the demise of the sacred CASH cow.

Gramma Knows

You really need to study who is behind all of these studies. You have also failed to mention that other peer reviewed articles exist proving a significant correlation between mercury exposure and rates of autism. I think it is funny how people think it is alright to inject a baby with mercury, yet, when ever you here of a mercury spill on the news the whole area is shut down and haz mat is called out. Mercury is the 2nd most toxic substance on earth! Would you inject it into your blood stream? I suggest you read "Evidence of Harm" by David Kirby- Another thing you should be aware of: Parents of autistic children are extremely intelligent. Your article seems to indicate that they are emotional ignorant people looking for some sort of justification...... PS You are also wrong about thimerasol no longer being used- Look on the FDA website- Keep in mind as well that these vaccines have about a 4 year shelf life and the government did not MANDATE the removal of thimerasol. Also, don't forget the aluminum and human fetus tissue .....Lisa

Having read the emotive comments above, if people wish to blame mercury for autism there is a far more likely route than vaccination. Since the second world war there has been a massive increase in dental caries amongst toddlers, due to the increased use of sugars in both food and drinks. The commonest treatment for caries is the filling of teeth with a mercury tin amalgam. Now, this treatment has been deemed 'safe' on the grounds of empirical evidence for 150 years, but it is only in the last 50 or so years were the very young exposed during the period when their brains are developing. So could it be that the massive increase in autism can be laid at the door of the junk food corporations? Legally plausible explanation? I would say far more easy to 'prove' on the basis of distorted evidence, than the hypothesis that this is down to the MMR vaccine. I would imagine that the 'correlation' is almost perfect, as with much of the misused data sets that abound in the media. And lawyers please note, the potential defendants have shedloads of money....

The Danish study you mention has been widely discredited: "...An in-depth analysis of the report
reveals three major problems with the analysis and methodology..."
"...For example, if the Danish studies were correct
regarding removal of thimerosal increasing autism you would think the Danish, Swedish and English governments would immediately
reinstate thimerosal in their vaccines. They haven't, and the English removed it after the study
done in their country was made public..."

http://www.safeminds.org/research/docs/Blaxill-DenmarkAutismThimerosalPediatrics.pdf

Also, it's simply not true that the incidences of autism in non-vaccinated populations is the same as vaccinated groups. In the US, the current ratio is 1:166 children have the disorder. The rate in the Amish is 1:15,000.

It's disappointing to read Apoorva Mandavilli's column in a reputable scientific journal.

To suggest that the science is on a single side when discussing the harm caused by vaccines is to display breathtaking and non-scientific bias that would not survive any serious look at this subject.

Nature's readers, many of whom are or will be parents, deserve better.

I am a parent of an autistic son and I find the comments here uniformly depressing. There is no scientific evidence that thimerosal causes autism and the autism rates still rise even though it has been removed in 2001. A Canadian study looked at autism rates from when they removed thimerosal (IIRC in 1996). They found no decrease in autism rates and those children that did not have thimerosal had a slightly higher rate of autism than those who did! I suggest the people here take a look at what your insurance companies are paying for your children's vaccines. The price increase can be traced to this hysteria removing thimerosal. I hope the special master slaps this one down HARD.

Please note the front page of the NY Times today (June 18). There is a split in the Autism Speaks organization. This organization has incorporated NAAR, a reputable organization that did good, scientific, autism research. Now it appears to be on the cusp of being taken over by the "Mercuries". They won't see another dime of my money.

I too believed there was no link between autism and mercury in vaccines--until I reviewed the peer-reviewed scientific literature on both sides (graduate school project), including the studies left out of the IOM's review. I encourage all who read this to look for the conflicts of interest in the studies published outside the US showing no correlation. I believe the verdict will remain out until the very simple study comparing those vaccinated to those who have not been vaccinated is complete. The CDC removed children who were not vaccinated from their study. How can you conduct a study with no control group? This is basic science.

Several physicians have offered the CDC and other interested parties access to records of children who have not been vaccinated. Why not conduct a “scientific” study and put it to rest?

--Still on the fence with autism and vaccines

I am sorry to see such an out-of-touch article in what has always been such an insightful journal. As a parent of an autistic 4 year old, I would inform Ms. Madavilli that we don't need her, or anyone’s, sympathy - we want a cure. We want to make sure whatever is causing this growing epidemic is discovered and eliminated. And as parents, we find it very frustrating that when searching for answers we’ve step on the land-mine of "Big Pharma" and in that, find an infinitely funded, deeply organized group that has already circled its wagons and sent out its legions of “experts” and “specialists” to dismiss claims, stifle research, close conversations with overwhelming generalizations and falsehoods, patronize people like me, who live with the reality of autism, by handing us their “deepest sympathies” but write off our assertions as being “emotionally driven” and, eventually, driving a insurmountable wedge between the two parties that need to work together to stem the tide of this epidemic - that is the victims of autism and the medical and research community.

Ms. Madavilli rests her case upon science. But the science in this issue is not in. Ms. Madavilli and the rest of her “Flat Earth Society” believe that science is their exclusive domain and their opinion is not to be questioned. Over and over I hear about it being proven that there is no link between vaccination, thimerosal and autism, but that is simply NOT TRUE. No conclusive science supports either side in this argument, so doesn’t it seem prudent to stop all these conversations and get back to the lab? Not once have I seen Ms. Madavilli or any of her like-minded group discuss the Comprehensive Comparative Study of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Populations Act. If you want to end the vaccination conversation, then prove it. Support Rep. Carolyn Maloney’s act, if for no other reason then to try to get to the heart of why so many non-vaccinated groups haven’t suffered the same increase in autism.

You don’t own science Ms. Madavilli. You can’t present your half of the case as the whole. I don’t think I’ll ever realize what motivates people like you from closing down such a lucrative avenue of research based on such limited and disputable findings. This is were suspicion comes into play. You call us “conspiracy-nuts” and we call you “shills for big pharma” all the while my child suffers. If my son Jackson had a nickel for each time some professional, with all sincerity in their voice, dismissed his diagnosis or any of the questions I pose as paranoid banter - he would be a rich man. Sadly, he would still be autistic as well.

The sad thing about vaccines is that they have never been really tested on few months old babies before the vaccines companies market them to the hospitals.

It is horrible to inject toxic materials such as vaccines into the bloodstream of a few months old infants.

Even if vaccines were useful to protect children from contracting diseases, they should be vaccinated at a older age such as when they are four to five years old. This is the time when they are not infants and less susceptible to the unknown ill effects of the vaccines.

Thank you for that rational, intelligent report. I hope that one
unintended consequence of the hearings will be more news coverage
like yours. Anybody who believes the autism quacks and charlatans
forever loses the right to laugh at creationists.

Ken, Milwaukee

Ken, I'm sorry, you make no sense. Who are the autism quacks and charlatans and where does creation come into this discussion?

One "unintended consequence" I hope comes from all this is that people like yourself and Ms. Madavilli will attempt to do more research, take in all information - not just that which supports your side - and contribute more accurately to the conversation.

I must ask anyone who has reservations about those of us who recognize the dangers associated with vaccines directly causing autism in many, what is it that you don't get? Consider the following which removes any defense of the vaccine manufacturers who have made vaccines a veritable dump-site of ridiculous proportions of toxic ingredients...

Vaccine Fillers and Ingredients

In addition to the viral and bacterial RNA or DNA that is part of the vaccines, here are the fillers:

aluminum hydroxide
aluminum phosphate
ammonium sulfate
amphotericin B
animal tissues: pig blood, horse blood, rabbit brain,
dog kidney, monkey kidney,
chick embryo, chicken egg, duck egg
calf (bovine) serum
betapropiolactone
fetal bovine serum
formaldehyde
formalin
gelatin
glycerol
human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)
hydrolized gelatin
monosodium glutamate (MSG)
neomycin
neomycin sulfate
phenol red indicator
phenoxyethanol (antifreeze)
potassium diphosphate
potassium monophosphate
polymyxin B
polysorbate 20
polysorbate 80
porcine (pig) pancreatic hydrolysate of casein
residual MRC5 proteins
sorbitol
sucrose
thimerosal (mercury)
tri(n)butylphosphate,
VERO cells, a continuous line of monkey kidney cells
washed sheep red blood cells

Source: http://www.mercola.com/2001/mar/7/vaccine_ingredients.htm

What else is there to say?

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!

Merv wrote "Since the second world war there has been a massive increase in dental caries amongst toddlers, due to the increased use of sugars in both food and drinks. The commonest treatment for caries is the filling of teeth with a mercury tin amalgam."

Also fluoridation is 60 years old in the USA and obviously it's not stopping the tooth rot as it was promised to do.

Most people don't know that fluoride chemicals are actually waste products from phosphate fertilizer manufacturing that goes UNpurified before being added to water supplies. They are allowed to contain trace amounts of lead, arsenic, mercury and other pollutants.

The National Sanitation Foundation is the official body which regulates fluoridation chemicals.

Here's their fluoridation fact sheet
http://www.nsf.org/business/water_distribution/pdf/NSF_Fact_Sheet.pdf

I would appreciate if the author "teeus" provides me the references for the rates of autism he or she mentions: 1:166 in the USA; 1:15,000 in the Amish.
These ratios look very unrealistic.
Thank you

Do the Amish normally report cases of autism, or do they interpret them as "demon possession" or suchlike and go to church instead of to a doctor?

Even if vaccines were useful to protect children from contracting diseases, they should be vaccinated at a older age such as when they are four to five years old. This is the time when they are not infants and less susceptible to the unknown ill effects of the vaccines.

Assuming they would have reached such an age instead of dying before -- from the very diseases that there are vaccinations against.

If I have to choose between death by diphtheria and life in (maybe) autism, my choice is obvious.

A modest responce to Bill (June 21, 2007 12:10 AM):

(This may be a little side-tracked from the general discussion about autism and vaccination and I do not really know much about the existance or non-existance of proof that links them both...but mercury is usually deemed to be a bad substance).

I think we should remember that vaccines are not primarily there to protect the individual but the population as a whole (through herd immunity). This only works as long as enough people decide (or are forced by government directives) to vaccinate themselves and their young ones (optimally with the safest vaccine available). Therefore the agitation for a general refusal to vaccinate may be thought of as short sighted and extremely individualistic . It is basically the same as to agitate for the condemnation of our children to grow up in a world where polio and smallpox have returned to kill and maim.

I'd also like to mention that you will ingest many (if not most) of the "ingredients" mentioned in your list through the food you eat during the next week.

The Most Bitter Debate

There is no greater rancor in medicine than the autism-vaccine debate, and this debate has reached the federal vaccine court where 5000 autistic kids and their families are requesting compensation for vaccine injury.

In California it is a illegal to inject newborns with the mercury containing vaccines (such as the thimerosol Hep-B Shot), and it should be crime in your state as well.

Hepatitis B is transmitted with IV drug abuse, or via promiscuity, both of which are somewhat impossible for newborns. It is much safer to wait until the child is 3 years old to give the shot.

Hopefully, the injection of mercury into newborns will soon become a relic of the ancient past, taking its rightful place in the museum along with bloodletting and leeches. Until then, there is much work to be done to remove mercury from our vaccinations. As a nation, we can’t afford not to.

Thousands of families are reporting their normal children changed after receiving mercury-containing vaccines, and began displaying Autism symptoms (which mimic mercury poisoning).

There are many videos posted on U-Tube showing a typical story. The new born child develops normally, is then vaccinated and becomes autistic. After biologic treatment by a DAN physician the child dramatically improves.

(Click Here for Video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJIXEyXE4Vk

Read more at:
Autism and Mercury Vaccines by Jeffrey Dach MD
http://jeffreydach.com/2007/10/11/autism-vaccines-and-robert-f-kennedy-jr-by-jeffrey-dach-md.aspx

Jeffrey Dach MD
4700 Sheridan Suite T
Hollywood Fl 33021
954-983-1443
my web site
http://www.drdach.com/

I don't know where to begin. Part of me wants to be irrational fly off the handle and read this uneducated writer the riot act. But I won't.
I can tell you I have had the unfortunate experience of witnessing the after effects of these shots. All I can do is utilize the benefits currently available to help my son. We are fortunate in that my wife doesnt have to work so she ensures my boy has speech therapy, OT and the necessary things he needs to help him be successful.
My heart goes out to everyone fighting the same battle.